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Toe down?

Last Post 10/08/2022 11:03 AM by 79 pmooney. 9 Replies.

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6ix

Posts:485

09/14/2022 12:37 PM
I've had a few people this year comment that I pedal very toe-down. Think Coppi had this particular style. I've even moved my cleats as far back on the sole as possible. I'm wondering if I don't drop my heel due to my calves being too tight. Any thoughts on this? I don't think it adversely affects my riding at all, just observational now. Of course, this has resulting in me now being paranoid and self-conscious about how I pedal, over-analyzing everything. Considering I had a Retul fit a few years ago and nothing about my pedaling style was brought up, can't be that bad, right? Moving the cleat further back has helped reduce some of the pain I'd get on the outside of my foot so that's been good, especially when combined with ample arch supports.

Orange Crush

Posts:4499

09/14/2022 04:27 PM
Posted By Evan Solida on 09/14/2022 12:37 PM Considering I had a Retul fit a few years ago and nothing about my pedaling style was brought up, can't be that bad, right? These fit sessions are pretty short. Could it be that the pedaling style changes to toe down with time/effort/fatigue?

6ix

Posts:485

09/14/2022 05:04 PM
Could be but pretty sure I pedal like that straight out of the gate. I'm wondering if it's different trends, much like cadence is significantly higher today. Combined with shorter gears, riders tend to spin more these days. I know I sure do, I generally average in the low-to-mid 90's.

mondonico

Posts:158

09/14/2022 07:04 PM
I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn in decades. But in the days of real cleats wasn't a thing called ankleing a real thing. Pulling on the up stroke. And would that not of been more efficient with the toe pointing down somewhat. Making it easier to pull up. I do remember pedaling with one leg at a time to try and improve my smoothness and pulling up. Besides, if Coppi did it, how bad can it be?

Orange Crush

Posts:4499

09/14/2022 07:09 PM
Posted By Bill H. on 09/14/2022 07:04 PM Besides, if Coppi did it, how bad can it be? Yes, exactly, haha. That said, riding Whistler Gran Fondo last weekend I saw one guy riding extreme toes down. It looked very uncomfortable and odd. Had you posted this earlier I'd have tapped him on shoulder and asked about it.

longslowdistance

Posts:2886

09/14/2022 07:34 PM
LeMond was coached into toes down. He did rather well. Not sure it was the ankle flexion but who knows?

6ix

Posts:485

09/15/2022 07:52 AM
Ah, I bet that's it. I started riding in the late Lemond era (early 90's) so worked very hard at developing a fluid pedal stroke where I would pull back and up rather than just mash. Over time, I bet that's why my calves grew stronger and eventually lead to pedaling more toe-down as it simply works better mechanically if pedaling in that style. TL;DR - I guess it doesn't matter as long as still efficient. While I might not pull back and up on every single pedal stroke, I'll definitely reduce the perceived effort on my quads and load up my calves in order to switch between the muscles, hoping to flush the lactic acid out a bit.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

09/16/2022 09:22 AM
Don't sweat a toe down style.... unless it is the result of a saddle height that is too high. If the toe-down is because your leg is having to "reach" to get to the bottom of your stroke, then you have a fit issue that needs to be addressed. I definitely have a toe down style....but I know my saddle height is good so I don't worry about it. Nothing frustrates me more than lazy "your saddle is too high" takes simply because someone has a toe-down stroke.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

79pmooney

Posts:3189

10/08/2022 10:56 AM
I've always ridden toes down since I started with toeclips a long time ago. Thankfully I was never told it was wrong. I am under the impression I keep my foot at roughly the same angle throughout the pedal stroke. (I've never had a video taken of me. A still of me climbing an insanely hard hill on the 42-17 shows my DS foot at 11:00 and 75 degrees, NDS at 5:00 and 40 degrees (while I am out of the saddle and stretched far forward). Edit: this was extreme push-pull climbing. Yes, also powering through the top and bottom but simply so hard that all elegance was gone. 2 mile hill with two stretches of 14%+. So hard that when I touched my forearms with soap later in the shower, it hurt! My check of all potential cycling shoes is to put them on, stand in front of the checkout counter with my hands on the counter. Go up on my tiptoes like a ballet dancer en point. Comfortable? Or are my toes jamming into the front of the shoe? Do the straps work for me?

79pmooney

Posts:3189

10/08/2022 11:03 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 09/16/2022 09:22 AM Don't sweat a toe down style.... unless it is the result of a saddle height that is too high. If the toe-down is because your leg is having to "reach" to get to the bottom of your stroke, then you have a fit issue that needs to be addressed. I definitely have a toe down style....but I know my saddle height is good so I don't worry about it. Nothing frustrates me more than lazy "your saddle is too high" takes simply because someone has a toe-down stroke. I get that seat too high lecture! (And I pass the heel on spindle test with bare feet.)