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Greg Van Avermaet taken out, UCI silent
Last Post 08/04/2015 06:34 PM by Mike Shea. 11 Replies.
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79pmooney

Posts:3189

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08/02/2015 11:54 AM
Greg Van Avermaet was taken out by a TV motorcycle yesterday at the Clásica San Sebastián yesterday as he made his potentially winning move on the final climb.  The motorcycle broke the bike' rear wheel and frame and ended Van Avermaet's bid.  According to both the CyclingNews and VeloNews sites, UCI has remained silent.

Pretty damning of UCI I say.  They should have convened a race jury immediately to address a correction of the standings.  Yes, I am going to guess that they would have to allow the standings to stay as is because of the distance to the finish, but you meet, discuss the situation and let the world know you are doing that.

This looks like the old UCI.  "We didn't see anything first hand.  We heard rumors there might have been some inequities that took place and we will meet in secrecy with our lawyers to discuss our next move", not "There transpired an incident in the race that was totally unacceptable and we will work with BMC to rectify things and the race organizer to see that the responsible parties are held accountable.  We will also work with race organizers to see that this never happens again."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/news/moto-collision-knocks-van-avermaet-out-of-contention-in-san-sebastian_380192

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/news/bmcs-ochowicz-eyes-legal-action-after-moto-incident_380257

The video:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bmc-exploring-legal-action-after-van-avermaet-crash/

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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08/02/2015 03:13 PM
Insufficient training and preparedness of race officials is root cause I am guessing. Same with CF at lat year's Giro. How does training and experience of race officials e.g. compare to say a Champion's League soccer game? Only the best national league refs make it there.
longslowdistance

Posts:2886

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08/02/2015 04:43 PM
Old UCI motto: " Doping? what doping? Where's my bribe?

New UCI motto: " Sh*t happens"
Ride On

Posts:537

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08/02/2015 09:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race official but a race radio bike. More like a photographer on the sidelines than a ref on the field. Sometimes $4it does happen. If the ball goes off the ref and into the goal is it a goal? I think the answer is yes.

Yeah the guy screwed up, yeah $4it happens , yeah they should be more careful. I hate today's world were everything thing that goes wrong gets viewed as this what " they" should have done
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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08/03/2015 07:57 AM
Retribution for GvA getting off clean from his doping investigation. It was a hit.



Seriou,sly though....WAY too many of these incidents occurring.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
zootracer

Posts:835

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08/03/2015 08:53 AM
It was a tv motorbike. I guess there is a fine line between up close in your face coverage and common sense safety.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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08/03/2015 10:01 AM
Posted By Ride On on 08/02/2015 09:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race official but a race radio bike.


That wasn't the point, lack of clear rules and lack of clear and authoritive officiating is the point. The UCI has a ways to go on this.
Master50

Posts:340

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08/04/2015 09:10 AM
First of all it was a Television Camera bike. They are the only vehicles allowed to drive at race level and without them there is no tv coverage. They have a lot of experience. Hundreds of hour a year. Some live in motorcycle gear all summer. They work for the Television provider. As for the commissaires. they take about 10 years of race experience to get their international licence. That generally means years of local officiating with some clear demonstration of dedication and competence. they work at national races and some minor roles at international races of lower category. There are usually 3 or 4 commissaires on the road and 3 judges. There may be up to 4 national commissaires on motorcycles at bigger events too. At a race of this level all the international coms have 7 to 10 years of experience as ICs before they get to work this level of event. Most WT race officials do 50 to 70 race days a year. They take a lot of courses over the course of their careers and make just 1 bad call can push their career back a number of years. A bad call can be as minor as an error on a race report. Many UCi officials also had racing careers and more than a few were pros. This was not a case of the moto driver being in the wrong place but it was a major screw up and that driver will likely never work another major bike race again. HE made a big mistake and from experience will not get a second chance. Thousands of hours of safe and skilled driving and it is over for him. these moto drivers are not amateurs. Neither are the actual officials.
THE SKINNY

Posts:506

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08/04/2015 10:33 AM
sounds like they have as much time on their bikes as the racers do. thanks for the info.
How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives.
79pmooney

Posts:3189

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08/04/2015 10:58 AM
Master, I see and respect your opinion, but, I also see UCI and pro cycling having a problem of not looking like they care about riders. There was this incident, the incident of another BMC ridier hitting a pole left on the course earlier this year and a third incident to the same team that cost the team a good rider for nearly a year, Phinney's crash in Colorado. (Granted that was not UCI and probably not very high n the radar outside this country.)

Rider relations with UCI are shaky now. The good thing for UCI is that the rider's union is a joke. But a weak union and organization that doesn't respond towards either its bread and butter (the riders) or the teams (like BMC) when something like this happens is doing nothing to further its image constructively.

Someone from high up at UCI should have stepped up that afternooon and said "this is unacceptable. We are establishing a workgroup that wiill convene tomorrow to address the inequities and we will invite BMC, Orica-Greenedge and others to the table." Then they meet and talk. This could have been a perfect place for the new woman at UCI to get exposure and credibility with the teams and riders.

Instead, this just looks like same old, same old from UCI. They had a chance to do what was right and passed on it. (And as I said above, doing what was right would probably be little more than a statement, but that statement would put them in a very different light.)

Just quietly removing that driver from the racing scene is far from enough for UCIs credibility. Staying quiet is instead a rather powerful statement as to just how unimportant it considers the riders.

My analogy? Baseball. This isn't an umpire being hit by a batted ball. There, properly, the ball is still in play and everyone has to deal with it. This is more like an umpire stepping into the path of a baserunner, the baserunner missing the bag because of the umpire and being tagged out, then the umpires collectively choosing to not even review the call.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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08/04/2015 12:40 PM
Ben - I don't think there was a need for a meeting or need to rectify anything. Van Aevermaat was simply out of luck. As Ride On put it - $4it happens.

Equivalent in soccer, ball hits ref and bounces into goal. Its a goal, it counts, $4it happens. There's a clear FIFA rule on this (ref is considered "furniture") allowing ref to make a clean authoritative call. That is what was lacking at Sebastian, no clear rule, no call from officials, just silence leaving everyone to wonder WTF.

Maybe then its not a matter of experience, simply the officials not having the tools (rules) in hand to make the proper calls.
Master50

Posts:340

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08/04/2015 06:34 PM
Ben In the heat of a race there is no time to stop and do a Oh we are so concerned about this or that. there are doctors to look after the injured and the various Television companies and the organizers, who by the way, are responsible for everything but officiating including the TV crew(s). Not saying things, does not mean they do not care, but what does a commissaire say that makes anyone happy? they get you should have done x or y but the minute a race official has words with the TV crew you would not believe the fear this sets up in the organizer. That TV coverage is often the organizers major revenue source and if a TV crew does not come or sends the B team the organizer suffers. The UCI for all its flaws is about sanctioning, officiating and keeping the performance records of all the races. They have a role in anti doping as well as the Olympics and World championships. You hear and read a lot of reactions to things the UCI does not have direct control but very few people that understand their role. The tour is also run very differently and generally there is a member of the organization doing the same job the UCI is there to do. Did ASO make any announcement about the Sky rider that went off the road? Not much especially since he was reasonably unhurt. The organizer has more to do with the TV bike than the officials do and I have never had a TV bike obey me if I tried to control them during a race. go back to money. Like many, the first few times I saw crashes I had some morbid curiosity but after a few it just rips my guts and I cannot watch crash videos. FFWD on the recordings. I don't know a commissaire that is indifferent. This race incident will get lots of attention but not until the race report is read and all parties get a chance to explain their side especially now that BMC has suggested a law suit. We all know how the lawyers get paid. Strong words without facts are for Facebook and to placate emotional reactions. they often only make real changes harder because the facts get painted with too much opinion and unsupported conclusions. Van Avermat was not badly injured as these sorts of things go but the actions of the motorcycle driver need to be understood and so far I have not heard much from them. Like I said these guys operate a 1000LB. + machine with a camera operator and lots of heavy gear for hundreds (thousands) of hours a year. They are very good drivers and make few mistakes. They regularly negotiate the same terrain at the same speed and within meters of the riders all day every day with a guy standing up or leaning over or some other odd contortion to get a shot. they drive in conditions you would never tour in so I am very interested in the why as I am sure are all the players. Lack of concern? Sorry I have to disagree. Lack of showmanship and the associated crocodile tears? might be that.
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