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Another disc brake thread
Last Post 01/08/2016 12:03 PM by Nicholas Arenella. 16 Replies.
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Dale

Posts:1767

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12/27/2015 07:43 PM
From last nights Superprestige--

"Two out of two this weekend. That feels good,” said van der Poel, who added that Pauwels was the stronger man on the day but that he was better tactically, especially on the final lap.

“I sprinted to every corner like I sprinted to the finish line,” he said.

Pauwels agreed that the U-turn proved critical, and said it probably helped that the world champ was using disc brakes.

“The key moment was probably when we approached the 180-degree bend,” he said. “I really thought that I could take in in the lead, but suddenly Mathieu slipped past. With normal brakes such a maneuver might be impossible.”

Full story at --> http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/12/news/van-der-poel-van-loy-take-diegem-victories_391828
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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12/27/2015 11:34 PM
Nope....disc brakes will never catch on at the highest level of racing and major suppliers will never build bikes with them.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Nick A

Posts:625

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12/30/2015 04:06 PM
Read a thread on Toyota Tacomas still using drum rears, vs four wheel discs. The question was, can you lock up the brakes in about a second? The answer was yes. So how would stronger brakes help you? An honest question. I've thought about it. I mean, if you can lock up your brakes immediately, what's the difference? Well, yes, modulation, heat issues, but purely for stopping distance? Yes, four wheel drums, or horrible bike pad material, it takes time to slow the wheel. But...well you get what I'm asking.

N
longslowdistance

Posts:2886

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12/30/2015 07:33 PM

I'm guessing maybe somehow you are seeing a similarity between crappy drum brakes on a retro pickup and weather-exposed rim brakes on a bike, but otherwise actually I could use a little help to understand what you're asking . . .
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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12/30/2015 10:27 PM
On a road bike, traction will break long before you need the increased power of discs, at least in a straight line stop.

The advantage of discs (over any decent set of calipers) is better modulation, lighter lever feel and increased tire clearance (run those 32's if yr frame will allow it!). Now, toss in wet conditions and / or carbon brake surfaces and they really are a game changer.

The irony as it pertains to carbon braking surfaces is that those wheels tend to be around wheels.....which immediately lose all their aero advantage when you use discs. Go figure. *shrugs*

I've long been a proponent of road disc development, but at this stage in the game, I am not seeing a compelling reason for discs of pure road bikes.....yet. If you live in an extremely hilly area with lots of rain, sure, maybe then....but in general, not so much.

That may well change in the next few years though as road discs become more specialized and the technology is refined.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1767

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12/31/2015 07:50 AM
For road usage I think the benefit are dubious, but for cross, that's another story.

With the constant accelerate-brake-accelerate-brake and frequently in wet conditions having brakes with easy modulation, light action and predictable results is huge.

The areo disadvantage is a non-issue with a 12mph average. The few times per race that the speeds exceed 20mph are immaterial.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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12/31/2015 10:18 AM
Oh yeah, completely agree w/ CX and all-rounder road bikes (refuse to use the dumb-ass "gravel" names). My comments were solely focused on pure road usage...I.e. Road racing / training. Sorry if I didn't make that clear....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1767

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12/31/2015 11:23 AM
^^ You were clear, I was just adding the CX twist to the discussion.

Bikes that benefit from disc:
Mountain bikes
Cross bikes
Tandems
Loaded touring bikes

Reminds me of the joke about the truck driver being interviewed for a job.
"What would you do if your brakes failed coming off Loveland Pass?"
"I'd wake up George in the sleeper cab."
"What good would that do?"
"Oh nothing, he's just never seen a wreck quite like what we're about to experience."
Cranky Tom

Posts:58

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12/31/2015 12:25 PM
As someone who is now riding a road bike with discs, I completely agree - they are not a game changer. The braking is very nice because of the modulation but moving from calipers to discs on the road is nowhere close to the change from moving from v-brakes to discs on the mountain bike. I had calipers and carbon wheels on my previous road bike and the real difference I've noticed with the discs is that I just don't have to think/worry about my braking whereas with my old set up I had to be much more conscious about it. But I like being more vs. less engaged in handling the bike, so in many ways I miss the old set up.

The way we've gotten to discs on road wheels is kind of curious when I think about it - they added carbon to aluminum rims to get more aero but that added weight. Then they went to full carbon wheels to save weight but that hurt braking performance. So now they're going to discs to get better braking performance but that adds weight is less aerodynamic. Seems like maybe we're right back where we started . . .
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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12/31/2015 12:52 PM
I'm still holding out hope that the "innovation" that comes from all of this is hydraulic calipers, not discs.....but my hope is rapidly fading on this.

SRAM has them as an option for Red, but no one else has followed suit (well, Rotor, but I don't think they really count).

You get the advantages of discs (better modulation, lighter lever feel, improved braking for carbon surfaces), but without the disadvantages (aero & weight penalties, new hub standards, QR issues, new frame standards, etc).

Everyone is focusing on the mechanism (discs) when they should be focusing on the technology (hydraulics).
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:3189

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12/31/2015 02:14 PM
Cosmic, if brifters go hydraulic, isn't that half the battle? Then someone just needs to take a standard dual pivot and actuate it with hydraulics, not a cable. Seems like something a lesser company could do and demonstrate it works. This should be doable keeping the common releases (or very similar ones) and having both riders and mechanics (on the road anyway) as fans.

Ben
Nick A

Posts:625

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12/31/2015 04:59 PM
I didn't read the article, only the quote. I ASSUMED it was road racing (which doesn't make a lot of sense in December). So, I thought the point was that a road rider could go deeper into a turn, and stop more quickly with disc brakes. Now I realize this was a cross race...so it's a whole different thing.

N
Master50

Posts:340

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01/01/2016 11:43 AM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 12/31/2015 02:14 PM
Cosmic, if brifters go hydraulic, isn't that half the battle? Then someone just needs to take a standard dual pivot and actuate it with hydraulics, not a cable. Seems like something a lesser company could do and demonstrate it works. This should be doable keeping the common releases (or very similar ones) and having both riders and mechanics (on the road anyway) as fans.

Ben


Magura and SRAM both make a hydraulic road caliper right now
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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01/01/2016 12:01 PM
van der Poel would have found a way past Pauwels with or without discs. This is Pauwels saying he f'd up in that turn. If there's no gap you can't slip past.
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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01/07/2016 03:22 PM
CK Nails it, it all about the MODULATION, came down from the Santa Fe Ski area this past fall on a hydro Shimano equipped bike, 70 plus miles an hour, with true one finger braking, the control at high speed was amazing. Don't know how long it will take for the pros, but discs make a huge amount of sense for us mere mortals.
Yup Master50, Magura has been doing these for Tri Bikes for quite some time, the system was pretty slick on a Cervelo P4 we had in the bike shop I worked in, and My brother's 96 S-Works MTB has Magura Hydro Canti Brakes, he loved them
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