Dale
Posts:1767
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| 05/06/2014 05:44 PM |
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Biggest clearinghouse for fake good just filed IPO
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/investing/alibaba-ipo/index.html
Bike and other companies are likely going nuts right now
CK, chime in will 'ya? I think you've got a better grip on this than most but it seems China has done very little to protect intellectual property and I bet this won't help |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/06/2014 08:53 PM |
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Well, to be somewhat fair to Allibaba, they are a lot more than just a clearing house for counterfeit goods. There is also a lot of legitimate business going On the as well.
That said, you are absolutely correct that China has an extremely poor record in protecting IP. Some of the counterfeit stuff is clearly fake.....it is easily spotted. But there is some stuff that is REALLY good. I have never been able to discern if the goods are truly counterfeit or if it is stuff that gets run down the line "after hours". I have heard it both ways.
About 6 or 8 years ago, the Chines went in and bulldozed a massive (and very famous) market in Shanghai. It was so well-known that it was often included on hotel tourist maps. But the government finally gave in to pressure and shut it down.....of course it was little more than a PR event. The goods are still readily available. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 05/06/2014 09:33 PM |
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I have a little inside info from Colnago about the counterfeits, you have to examine the bottom bracket-- this was a couple year ago, the knock-offs used a different shell and there were a couple other differences that you had to really know what to look for. Clearly they were not just an "after hours" batch, since there were differences in the BB shell itself.
There are a huge number of generic frames listed that in no way portend to be a specific brand-- just what the layup is, frame dimension and cost. A couple of my buddies bought integrated bar/stems from there that were stupid cheap… one is intact as far as I know, the other cracked and got pitched in the trash. I suppose if he'd have gone over the front and lost all his teeth they might have given him his $90.00 back 
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/06/2014 10:39 PM |
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Sorry...wasn't clear. When I was talking about "after hours" production, I wasn't referring to bike stuff. I was talking more about stuff like North Face jackets, etc. The smallest details are repeated (embossed / injection molded zipper tabs, etc). Hard to believe that some company can make any money on stuff like that if they are investing in tolling for minor details like that. Those types of goods are STOOPID cheap.
Maybe they just get some of the parts from "after hours" production and then use them in another shop. Never thought about that....
Bikes are a whole different beast. The factories over there know that if they sell stuff out the back door, they kill the goose that lays the egg. That stuff is almost always complete knock-offs. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 05/07/2014 08:52 AM |
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Many counterfeits are actually made in the same factories by the same people. the counterfeit is that they are made and sold in another stream or black market and the mark ups go to the manufacturer.
Your 400 North face Parka costs $40 to make and that is the factories cut. if they make 100 more after hours and sell them grey market they make $120 a %300 profit over straight market.
Of course many counterfeits are made with shredded paper as down and charge $100 too. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 05/07/2014 10:05 AM |
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Grey market vs counterfeit
Is it counterfeit if it's an 'after hours' run or is it grey market? My understanding is if it is the same item but skirted the law or proper distribution channel it's grey market. The jacket with shredded paper is counterfeit. |
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Pin0Q0
Posts:229
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| 05/07/2014 11:50 AM |
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Here is Chinese Amazon - Nothing but counterfeits and everything you need and some. Check out the cycling section:
http://www.dhgate.com/
Complete Dogma w/Ultegra $2300. Shipped free!!
http://www.dhgate.com/product/2014-complete-road-bike-carbon-pinarello/185927941.html#s1-6-7|2675888263 |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 05/07/2014 12:10 PM |
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I have trouble getting too upset about the Chinese copying and counterfeiting. It's what they do. (We should remember our industrial revolution started with cotton spinning and weaving technology that an American entrepreneur went to England and stole. The Chinese are just "stealing" what we bring to them.) The folks I wonder about are those who brought the technology to China and didn't think that was going to happen. What were they smoking? And out government allowing technology with military applications to go there? (Boeing's wings for example.)
Seems to me like the chase of the bottom line has CEOs blinded to the obvious.
Ben |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 05/07/2014 04:09 PM |
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don't really feel sorry for companies that get all butt hurt over the topic. take apple for example. they pay some chick from burberry a $67 million signing bonus
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/apple-new-retail-boss-potential-67m-signing-bonus-article-1.1782518
and at the same time chain 13 year-olds to a production line in the old skool company town and pay them mere shekels
https://www.chinalaborwatch.org/pro/proshow-176.html
I hope someone counterfeits Apple to the point they can't function, their stock prices drop and all the MBA carrying, lean six sygma black belts that engineered the craziness all go bankrupt. Just sayin' |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 05/07/2014 04:13 PM |
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| Butt hurt ; ) |
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 05/08/2014 10:16 AM |
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Posted By Dale Dale on 05/07/2014 10:05 AM
Grey market vs counterfeit
Is it counterfeit if it's an 'after hours' run or is it grey market? My understanding is if it is the same item but skirted the law or proper distribution channel it's grey market. The jacket with shredded paper is counterfeit.
OK My understanding of grey market is like what we see from Euro e tailors selling legitimate products out of their "Authorized Market? So a Record Grouppo cost 1500 from Wiggle and 2000 locally. Assos jacket is 550 from N am Retailers and 450 from European ones with free shipping. legit product. legit market stream sold outside. Campy announced world pricing last decade but it really never happened. Of course we Canadians pay more for everything and we do it with a smile. Acura MDX is made in ontario but cost 10 grand more than the same car in Hawaii after exchange rates are calculated? |
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Inferno7
Posts:344
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| 05/08/2014 12:11 PM |
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| At $2300 for an Ultegra Ridley Fenix, 3k for an Ultegra Helium, there is no need to buy counterfeit. |
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