smokey52
Posts:498
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| 10/17/2019 09:49 PM |
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As we ride, we talk about stuff. Some of the stuff includes politics. With respect to presidential primaries, I do not understand "open primaries" where people unaffiliated or of a different party can have a voice in selecting my party's candidate. It varies from state to state.
Bernie got a boost from this last time. Who might benefit this time? |
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smokey52
Posts:498
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| 10/17/2019 09:50 PM |
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| Confession: I was on my own ride and discussing this in my head today. Crazy winds! |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/17/2019 10:31 PM |
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IL is an open primary state...for which I am thankful. I am neither Democrat or Republican and I will not join either party. With an open primary, my voice still matters before the general election.
Moreover, I can use my vote strategically. In 2016, I voted in the GOP primary for John Kasich. By the time of our primary, Trump was coalescing his lead for the nomination and I wanted to be able to say I tried to stop it. Next year, I will vote for Joe Walsh in the GOP primary....nit because I endorse that loathsome POS, but because I will take any opportunity to stop Trump from being re-elected.
Regardless of the primary outcomes, I will be voting for the Democratic nominee in 2020. I don’t care who it is, the only thing that matters is defeating Trump.
More generally re: open primaries, yes you can help determine the nominee in another party, but you also give up your ability to vote in your party’s primary, somthere is a trade off. I used to like the idea of being able to vote in BOTH primaries, kind of like a playoff system. However, such a system would be rife with people voting for the “wrong” candidate just to screw with the other party. So the “open” primary addresses that by limiting your primary vote to a single party. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/17/2019 11:01 PM |
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| I enjoy my time here with fellow cyclists and hope this thread turns no one off. That said, this is not a good time for the US. As a member of the radical middle, I hope we can climb out of our current deep hole. Billionaires in the US now pay lower taxes than working stiffs. Trump's family makes "official state visits" to countries where they have pre existing business ties, and pretty much no where else. I am certain the current administration will break the record for convictions and jail time. And I am certain that the current occupant's solid minority will accept none of it, as Trump correctly predicted before being elected. Meanwhile Boris d-bag gave away the farm to the EU to create a less embarrassing brexit. . . . . I wonder if the potent force of financial insecurity is weaker than cultural insecurity, |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/18/2019 09:21 AM |
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As an outsider I get neither the concept of being affiliated with a party or the concept of primaries.
Although I doubt you would have noticed we have a general election as well. It started 2 months ago it will be done Monday. Party leaders were efficiently put forward by their respective caucuses. The electorate isn't necessarily your best bet for picking good leaders. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/18/2019 09:37 AM |
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| Oh, and Warren is your best bet not only to displace Trump but more importantly to address the factors that led to Trump to begin with. A lot of those factors reside with both parties. Still see Trump more as a symptom (that ugly pimple on your forehead) than a cause and certainly for all the $hit he's done and said, still don't rank him as low as W and his gang of war criminals. Current events in Syria even though they're being pinned on your current WH occupant are still a direct consequence of that gang. |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 10/18/2019 01:51 PM |
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| Since he announced he was running for president, it's been a barrage to my mental well-being. Literally every single freakin' day we are assaulted with news of things he does. We are witnessing pure evil, plain and simple. The earth will be so much better when he is gone and they had better hide is final resting place because a whole lot of people will want to piss on it. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/18/2019 04:26 PM |
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As a member of the radical middle
You and me both.
OC, I greatly fear that Trump will trounce Warren in a general election. 2020 will be about the swing states and the moderate voters who held their nose and voted for Trump. For many of them, Warren is just variation of what they experienced in 2016....the misogyny and fear of "socialism" (not to mention the chants of "Pocahontas" ) will, IMO, likely seal our fate.
As noted, I will vote in the GOP primary, not because I am a Republican, but because I want to be able to say that I voted against Trump every chance I could. I will leave the Dems to pick their candidate (not my monkeys, not my circus) and vote for whomever they choose. But a Warren nomination is deeply troubling to me.... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/18/2019 05:36 PM |
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| Steve Bullock, governor of WY is very appealing to me. He polls higher in Iowa than most of the candidates on the stage this week. Dem governor in a pro trump state. He would crush Trump in the general election. But he’s too moderate for the Dem base. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/18/2019 06:43 PM |
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He would crush Trump in the general election.
That is the only thing that matters....I honestly don’t care what anyone’s policies are right now. The only thing that matters is defeating Trump. I can live with 4 years of ANYONE’s policies....we just need to get him out of office.
Those that don’t get that and are fighting ideological battles completely baffle me. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/18/2019 08:38 PM |
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| I'll disagree CK. People didn't hold their nose and voted Trump. They stayed home. Trump got less votes than W IIRC. But Clintons vote was that much more depressed relative to Obama's. Why? Because the "everything's just hockey dorey" status quo candidate was the worst possible option in an election that was all about upending that same status quo any which way. 2020 will be a repeat of that but with even more entrenched sentiments. A middle of road candidate will become road kill. Every election just about anywhere these days the middle ground is dead. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/18/2019 09:19 PM |
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I understand your point, but we aren’t talking about winning the popular vote. Dems don’t need to get more people in CA and NY to vote. They already have those electoral votes locked up. What they need to do is swing independents in OH, MI, PA, WI and NC. I don’t think you can do that with a “left wing” candidate (and I hate that term). The only thing that matters is getting to 270 and you can’t do that unless you flip some of those states.
And Dems desperately need to activate the African-American vote....they can’t win without it. And Warren has severe negative in the AA demographic.
None of the above is about policy or platforms....it is only about defeating Trump. And I have severe concerns that Warren can do it. (Actually, I am concerned that ANY Dem can do it in 2020)
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/18/2019 09:39 PM |
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Nope. They couldn't swing those states with a middle ground candidate in 2016 and they won't swing them again in 2020 with one.
Interesting quote in Dutch newspaper commenting on Canadian election. The conundrum equally applies to the Democrats.
"Trudeau has always been a man of the middle. It used to mean that you made friends on two sides. In a polarized world you make enemies on both sides." Or...as I put it down succinctly on FB on that fateful day in 2016 "if you put forward an establishment candidate in what's clearly an anti-establishment election you stand to lose". I sure hope I don't have to post those words again although I wouldn't bet against it. The Ds have a habit of shooting themselves in foot. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/18/2019 09:44 PM |
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| In other news, just read that mini Phinney is retiring. Never really got his mojo back after that horrible crash. Understandable. If you're a poor black kid from the projects in the NBA, or a grew up dirt poor African, South American or Euro equivalent playing pro soccer in Europe, the world might look different. Glad Phinney has the option to just hang it up. |
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