79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 08/23/2013 12:44 AM |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 08/23/2013 12:48 AM |
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My last crash and the new MIPS helmets (did I get the acronym right?) got me thinking. My strap was clearly not tight. Lots of evidence my helmet moved a lot. My right ear was nearly severed by the strap and my glasses were knocked around and caused several cuts. But, I suffered no concussion, very surprising as I hit hard on the side of my head (and remember it).
Clearly the helmet relieved much of the shear acceleration by sliding on my head. Maybe it is time to rethink the idea that tight straps are the way to go (on a non-MIPS helmet). And we have O.C. leading the way.
Ben
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 08/23/2013 08:07 AM |
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| i see way too many folks with their helmets loose and too far back, leaving their foreheads relatively exposed. the tip of the helmet should be just above one's eyebrows. |
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zootracer
Posts:835
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| 08/23/2013 11:33 AM |
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| You see a lot of loose helmet straps with the pro's. Makes me wonder if they do any good at all if they crash. Simple test is if you can push your helmet back on your head, your straps are too loose.. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 08/23/2013 12:00 PM |
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I'm not talking about so loose that the helmet isn't there at impact. I am talking about loose enough that it slides on the head rather than staying in place and accelerating the head. In other words, not the snug straps I was always told with any helmet sport I played.
I did not see (yet another) concussion this crash. I certainly hit hard enough. I'm wondering if on the whole, snug straps cause more damage than not so snug. What I read of the MIPS research and this experience suggests that might be the case.
Ben |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/23/2013 12:15 PM |
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| A little elasticity, perhaps? |
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pabiker
Posts:80
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| 08/23/2013 12:31 PM |
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A friend of mine was killed last year on a ride. His helmet was always loose and cocked a little bit (like OC's). He suffered trauma to his forehead and never regained consciousness. When I got back to him his helmet had slid back onto his head leaving the front of his head completely exposed.
His helmet should have been crushed - it was not.
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 08/23/2013 04:41 PM |
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| Sorry to hear that, PA, that must have been tough. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/23/2013 08:32 PM |
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I find it somewhat mind numbing that while we can probably point out 99 factors that are more important for our overall road safety, the conversation is always dominated by that piece of styrofoam still so ill fit for purpose regardless whether you mount it properly on your skull or not.
Talk about this, should power meters or other stem mounted screen units be banned from group rides (races) just like we don't want to see guys on tri bikes in our groups? If you're looking at your stem you're not looking at the road. In my mind, these things are only a touch off handheld devices in cars, which we know to be about as dangerous as drunk driving. "How fast are we going downhill Steve? Lemme check"...crash, boom.
Don't follow me when it comes to helmets Ben, I am a highly skeptical user. Or at least do so at own risk. Oh and that lid of mine sits a lot tighter than one might think from the photo. A little while ago, descending down the stairs with my helmet on, it ended up hitting the structure above the stairs. Helmet did not budge one bit. That's a good enough impromptu test IMO. |
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pabiker
Posts:80
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| 08/23/2013 10:20 PM |
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Sure OC. They serve a lot of red herring in the Netherlands?
We shouldn't text while driving either, but we still drive cars that have 12 airbags. The fact that people make foolish decisions doesn't negate the value of a helmet or airbag.
When your head hits the concrete it won't be your power meter or ponytail that has chance to save you. Perhaps it's a conspiracy by the greedy Styrofoam consortium - I think not. Perhaps they save lives.
Mark's two kids would preferred that he had cut his hair shorter, had his helmet tighter, been uncomfortable, been uncool, been a golfer - WTF ever. They don't have a dad anymore.
To add risk unnecessarily and knowingly is to be foolish. Sure, I go fast downhill, but I stack the odds IN my favor not the other way around. |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 08/24/2013 07:35 AM |
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agree PA; there's no reason not to have one's helmet properly fitted and securely strapped to one's head.
there's the illusion of security during inertia -- an object in motion... "my helmet doesn't move at 30+ mph, even with loose straps." but it will when it goes from 30 to 0 in a split second. just ask princess diana, who didn't have her seat belt on. |
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Yo Mike
Posts:338
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| 08/24/2013 10:19 AM |
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As I understand it, early styrofoam shell helmets were found lacking as the foam would not slide well on pavement, resulting in neck injuries, so the thin plastic layer was added. Leather hairnets must have been even worse. I'd prefer to have my helmet stay in place on impact, thank you, covering what it is supposed to cover.
And the guys on motos too 'cool' to wear a helmet? I understand some in the medical profession call them 'organ donors'. Deaths / injuries of moto riders in PA have gone way up since helmets were made 'optional' for 'experienced' moto riders. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/24/2013 10:22 AM |
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So PA, using distractive devices or going fast downhill is not knowingly adding unnecessary risk? But that is OK cause your helmet stacks the odds in your favour? That is faulty logic right there. Too many people put their stock in passive safety devices. There's no styrofoam conspiracy but no miracles either. Active incident prevention is what really makes the difference. I go fast down hills but slow it down when the situation requires. These are the things that should be talked about, road sense.
I am sorry to hear about your friend Mark. Did they ever learn what caused the accident? That to me is the bigger question, a properly worn helmet may or may not have made a difference, we can only guess at that.
And yes, I do think that the trend of increasing crashes in peleton in seemingly innocent situations (straight roads) in recent years has a curious parallel with the introduction of distractive devices. It's not like these guys suddenly don't know how to ride a bike anymore. |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 08/24/2013 02:37 PM |
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| not sure many crashes can be attributed to SRMs or GPSs. always have been a lot of crashes - some very bad - in feed zones and riding piano. wouters turned his head to see who was behind him, and then there was a rock cliff. kivilev should have gotten back on his bike after a relatively minor accident... but he never got on a bike again. helmets were made mandatory after the latter. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 08/24/2013 06:40 PM |
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O.C., I plan to ride the rest of my life. There will be times when I will ride distracted. There will be times when I will ride when I am so tired I shouldn't. I will space out. I will pull clumsy moves. I will ride when cars are out, the roads are wet, the leaves are wet, there is sand. And I will do all of these things after dark.
For me, crashes are when, not if. I don't put electronics on my handlebars or in my ears. But I will never figure I get a pass from wearing the best helmet because I don't do those things. I will get a good MIPS helmet soon. My life is too crazy (with kitchen remodel) to even think about it now and I will go through Cycle Oregon with my old Bell. But I will not tighten the strap as tight as I used to. Tighter than your photo, but loose enough to slide after impact. 2nd impact is a risk, but another concussion has been nearly a given for me (and thankfully, stitches in ears don't hurt at all. Been there.)
Ben |
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