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Not Doping?
Last Post 08/10/2014 12:35 PM by Andy Eunson. 20 Replies.
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/21/2014 01:23 PM |
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Starting in the '90s every GT winner had some dirt about doping surface. To use the biggest fish, every year LA had someone from inside the circle make accusations (that ended up being legit). Unless I've missed something, no one within the cycling circle has every made any such accusations about Nibali,
Unfortunately, I think that the 3dubs will always be filled with people accusing good performances of being doped (maybe rightly so). The double sided sward there is that if you win, you are doped, but if you don't win, you are washed up, overpaid, overrated...damned either way.
EDIT: Honestly, I haven't heard any accusations about Evens, Froome, Wiggins, or Quintana.
What happened to the guy who used math to determine power to weight and therefore doping? I haven't seen his calculations yet this year. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 07/21/2014 02:42 PM |
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Well, old & fat used to make some pretty serious allegations about Evans back on the VN forum....referred to him as a walking pharmaceutical cabinet. And O&F turned out to be right WAY more often than wrong.
Questions were definitely raised about Froome / Wiggins & Team SKY, but how much of it was legit and how much sour grapes? Who knows. Seem to recall some questions about Froome's power on a few of the climsb in both 2012 & 2013.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 07/21/2014 02:56 PM |
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Nibali has been doing a swell job at both rest days batting away a variety of questions.
http://wsau.com/news/articles/2014/jul/21/context-means-nibali-gets-an-easy-ride-on-doping/ |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/21/2014 03:10 PM |
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Cosmic, O&F would not be what I consider part of the inner circle (even if he did come up good pretty often). I'm talking about the Emma O' Reilly's and Betsy Andreau's of the world. The questions raised about the Sky duo were based on speculators not insiders.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to know clean or dirty. |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 07/22/2014 09:00 AM |
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Nibbles=>Astana=>Vino=>how stupid do they think we are? Vino is about as dirty as they come
This interview was a hoot, think Borat:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-2007-is-in-the-past-and-i-dont-want-to-return-to-that-topic
Its too bad, I want to believe Nibbles - but.... |
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stronz
Posts:447
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| 07/22/2014 12:25 PM |
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I dont think you have to use too much analytical power to come to the correct conclusion. Just go and ride one day of the tour stages. Try to be competitive. Ride the whole route for that day. After just one day you will conclude that anyone who is able to make that kind of effort day in and day out for three weeks without a jour sans (or two or three) is by definition receiving some kind of pharmaceutical assistance.
I rode the etape in 2004. It was brutally hard and thoroughly exhilarating. I covered the 245km from Limoges to St Flour in 9 hours. Climbing the Puy Marie in the middle of the route at 18% for 3km was interesting. Virenque won it the next day in 5:59. Now I can accept that there are specimens in the world who are naturally super-athletes. However I can not accept that the recovery needed to do this day in and day out is such that it is "normal" to be able to produce results like this for three weeks straight. I concluded then and there that just to make the cut every day they all have to dope. In the 10 years since I have seen nothing to convince me that things have changed one iota. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/22/2014 01:22 PM |
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stronz, that is the thing I can never get over about GTs; how do they recover from day to day, for 21 days?
jrt, yah I agree on Vino.
My point though was that there hasn't been an inside person point their finger at VN. |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 07/22/2014 01:52 PM |
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| The counter argument stonz and jmd is that the riders only have to recover as well as the other riders in the tour. I think Nibali is looking super awesome simply because the real competition is out of the race. I do hate how no matter who wins, there is a an immediate belief that that person is doping. Geez, doping or not, there is always a winner. |
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ChinookPass
Posts:809
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| 07/22/2014 01:56 PM |
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| 21 days without wives, kids, chores. Just eat, sleep, and race. Don't need no pharma to do that! The real mystery is how they live in those crappy euro hotels for that long. |
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gabbard
Posts:27
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| 07/23/2014 11:34 AM |
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Posted By ChinookPass . on 07/22/2014 01:56 PM
21 days without wives, kids, chores. Just eat, sleep, and race. Don't need no pharma to do that! The real mystery is how they live in those crappy euro hotels for that long.
I do wonder what their recovery scheme is, and I am assuming that it is pretty dialed in - hydration, carbs, protein, massage, have someone make dinner for you, and then sleep ASAP. Compared to my recovery scheme, which is usually something like finding whatever there is to eat, which might be a banana or might be a cookie, gobbling that down, and then moving on to whatever is next.
With proper recovery, combined with the fact that these are some of the finest cyclist in the world, make the stages easier to ride back to back to back?
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thinline
Posts:325
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| 07/23/2014 03:55 PM |
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| Last year after pedaling the most demanding ride I have ever done, 212 miles and about 12,500 of vertical, I discovered the most rapidly acting recovery drink yet. Beer. About 2 minutes after crawling off the bike at the ride's end, a friend came up and handed me an ice cold 16 oz. Heady Topper from the Alchemist brewery in Vermont. I drank it quite quickly and within 5 minutes was already feeling noticeabley better. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/23/2014 06:13 PM |
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Thinline, if one is good, two, three, four,, are better...correct?!  |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 07/23/2014 08:04 PM |
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Posted By Steve Gabbard on 07/23/2014 11:34 AM
Posted By ChinookPass . on 07/22/2014 01:56 PM
21 days without wives, kids, chores. Just eat, sleep, and race. Don't need no pharma to do that! The real mystery is how they live in those crappy euro hotels for that long.
I do wonder what their recovery scheme is, and I am assuming that it is pretty dialed in - hydration, carbs, protein, massage, have someone make dinner for you, and then sleep ASAP. Compared to my recovery scheme, which is usually something like finding whatever there is to eat, which might be a banana or might be a cookie, gobbling that down, and then moving on to whatever is next.
With proper recovery, combined with the fact that these are some of the finest cyclist in the world, make the stages easier to ride back to back to back?
Exactly. Plus on many days some riders will sit in the pack as much as they can so they are not doing much work. Support riders go 'til they blow and crawl in slowly. And these are the best riders in the world. You cannot compare regular folks to these guys. None of us could play in the NFL for more than 1/2 a play a I recon. Does that mean all NFL players are doped? Oh wait, I think most NFL players are. Poor example but you get my point. No disrespect intended.
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 07/25/2014 10:37 AM |
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Compared to the early days of bike racing today's distances are short, not easy but there were races over 400 km long in single stages.
A local guy now in his mid 70s rides 20,000 km a year and he still manages avg speeds in the high 20s. He used to ride over 600 km a week until his late 60s.. I recall riding a 200km random and trying to keep this guys wheel. He did not race and I did but he had endurance that made most of us look like toddlers. After about 35 km I realized I had not taken a pull and was breathing hard for the last hour. No way I was going to keep that up for 5 more hours so I let him go. 212 KM in 6.5 hours for him and 7 hours 12 minutes for me. He regularly rode sub 45 hours for 1000 km rides and that is including sleep time if he got any of it. My point is it is futile to judge another man's performance based on your own capacity. To the doping side? well until they found blood doping most of the doping of days past was related to pain and fatigue. No one was really doping to be faster. One other point is of you looked at the arc era of the 70s and 80s that most Grand tours had parade days. Days where the average speed is very low. Many days went easy for the first 100 km. Still get some of those but in a race like the Tour it is fast now most days from the gun. A stage win at this race can seal a good contract. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 07/25/2014 11:20 AM |
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One other point is of you looked at the arc era of the 70s and 80s that most Grand tours had parade days. Days where the average speed is very low. Many days went easy for the first 100 km.
Watch Stars and Bottle Carriers (Not sure of the exact wording). ~1971 Giro; one of Eddy's wins. Early on, much of the peloton stops in a village. They run into shops, stuffing their pockets with whatever they could grab, run back to their bikes, jump on and rejoin easily. (For the shop owners? Money lost but priceless advertising. And a once-in-a-lifetime. They love it!) A different era.
Ben |
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