Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
 |
| 07/09/2013 09:10 AM |
|
| Correction to my post above....I meant the Stage 12 w/ LA was preceded by an ITT, not followed. My bad! |
|
| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
|
|
|
Keith Richards
Posts:781
|
| 07/09/2013 09:54 AM |
|
| It is one thing to be skeptical, it is another thing to come up with Grassy Knoll level conspiracy theories. Dude had a week long training ride before he had to put in a 22 minute effort. If the stage after it had an uphill finish, Froome probably would have lost all the time he gained. |
|
| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
|
|
jrt1045
Posts:363
|
| 07/09/2013 11:40 AM |
|
KR
after the events of the last 15 years or so have unfolded, is the grassy knoll really the grassy knoll? I get to wear my tin foil hat and cast dispersion for 8 years about any result
With that said, Sky (under orders from Rupert Murdoch) hijacked the video feed to make us think stage 8 happened the way it did. CGI, baby!
|
|
|
|
|
Keith Richards
Posts:781
|
| 07/09/2013 11:47 AM |
|
| lol! |
|
| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
|
|
ElleSeven
Posts:48
|
| 07/09/2013 03:41 PM |
|
So if one were to use such list (e.g. the one that Cerv cites) for comparing performances in a credible way, what are the additional variables we'd need to control for, besides elapsed time on the timed segment? Off the top of my head I thought of these, of which some would be minor factors, others very important ones.
weather (wind, temperature, humidity)
road surface quality
road surface temperature
drag co-efficient
bike weight
wheel weight
efforts elsewhere on the course prior to the timed section
racing tactics as they played out on the day
length of the stage in which the climb occurs
position of that particular climb within that stage's sequence of climbs
total quantity and quality (1 through HC) of climbs for that stage
difficulty of previous stages leading up to that stage
… and so on. |
|
|
|
|
jmdirt
Posts:775
|
| 07/09/2013 04:11 PM |
|
Elle, you got about half of my list. A lot of that info is out there but it would take a while to pull it all together plus it would take even longer to check validity (the TdF archives has a lot of info.). There are certainly a lot of variables but even if 2001 was harder for LA/RL than 2013 was for CF was it enough to make up for turbo blood?
As I said I'm skeptical but I'm not saying it isn't possible. I'm asking the question though: is it possible? Everyone is dancing around it but no one will moon walk all over it. Yes or No?
Part of my questioning is also because so many people made it seem like turbo blood made the riders of the 2000's massively better. 10-20% better got tossed around a lot. Can even stacked variables make up for that? |
|
|
|
|
BikeCzar
Posts:53
|
| 07/09/2013 05:31 PM |
|
| Is it possible? Well it just happened. Until a rider is found to be guilty it's not right to assume and accuse them of wrong doing. |
|
|
|
|
jmdirt
Posts:775
|
| 07/09/2013 06:46 PM |
|
Czar, I said that for 10 years so I'm with jrt "I am invoking my right to an incredible amount of skepticism/cynicism for 8 years about any result. I get to wear my tin foil hat and cast dispersion for 8 years about any result " only I get 10 years!
If CF wins stage 8 by three minutes but is two minutes slower up the Ax Thermes-Domaines climb I wouldn't have even blinked. |
|
|
|
|
jrt1045
Posts:363
|
| 07/10/2013 11:42 AM |
|
What is encompassed, pray tell, in the term marginal gains?
Are we supposed to believe this beard that Sky has this magical bike technology and human nutrition program (based in Tenerife) that no one else in the whole wide world is privy to? Pay no attention to the former dopers, doping doctors, suspect training locations and donkeys turning into racehorses
Skepticism of Sky is well earned as we've heard all of this before. Might be deserving of KR's "C'mon Son" picture. In the meantime, I can entertain myself by creating wild stories
|
|
|
|
|
Keith Richards
Posts:781
|
| 07/10/2013 11:52 AM |
|
| But isn't the guy with the record Laiseka, a climber (and kook) who was never mentioned in any doping scandals? |
|
| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
|
|
Keith Richards
Posts:781
|
| 07/10/2013 01:55 PM |
|
| And if we are talking conspiracy theories...why is nobody talking about what had been a traditionally under performing Rabobank team having their best season ever after leaving their very anti-doping overseers? |
|
| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
|
|
jrt1045
Posts:363
|
| 07/10/2013 02:08 PM |
|
righto, KR
wondering the same, blinded by my skepticism of sky |
|
|
|
|
jmdirt
Posts:775
|
| 07/10/2013 03:29 PM |
|
RL was a Saiz wonder boy who had a mysterious joint condition and has never been heard from since the mid 2000's. He was first across the line that day because LA was chasing time and he was chasing points.
KR, I think in one of these threads I asked if Belkin has put electronic boosters in the Giants (if I didn't I meant to). |
|
|
|
|
Orange Crush
Posts:4499
|
| 07/10/2013 06:56 PM |
|
| Keith - they have an American sponsor now, that always means trouble :-)
Did Froome hold back today after he almost blitzed Martin? Haven't seen it, just a thought. |
|
|
|
|