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Horner's bio passport data

Last Post 10/07/2013 02:19 PM by Doug Sheppard. 20 Replies.

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jmdirt

Posts:775

09/25/2013 09:01 PM
Talk with a hemo doc (preferably one who has a research background with endurance athletes) before getting too excited by internet postings. Pits, KR, OC, and Ride On make good points.

jmdirt

Posts:775

09/25/2013 09:26 PM
Here is one reply to the first post: While I cannot say whether Horner was doping or not, your half-baked post needed a response. It is clear from your statements that you know absolutely nothing about hemodynamics other than what you read in internet chat rooms. Hemoglobin rise? from 14.4 on 8/29 to 14.3 on Sept 7. That looks like they did not change. Even the 13.5 measurement on Sept 3 is less that one half of the natural diurnal variation seen in men (see Sennels et. al., 2011, Scand. J. Clin Lab Invest. 71(7):532-541 or Pocock et al., 1989 J. Clin Path. 42(2): 172-179). So contrary to your uninformed opinion, there was no unusual rise in his hemoglobin or hematocrit during the race. The OFF-score variations are well with normal limits, as seen by Pottgeiser et al., (Transfusion 51:1707-1715 and supplementary materials). so there is nothing "red flag" about that. In order to demonstrate probable doping, OFF-score variations need to be in the range of 40-60 (once again read Pottgeiser's article). So were was this 40 point spread you saw? A 16 point swing was the highest I saw for all the scores for 2013 and you should know that you cannot just pick two random OFF-scores and compare them. they are used to evaluate serial changes in hemodynamic parameters. Comparing his Vuelta data to the earlier tests in 2013 what you see is a very stable blood profile. I defy you to show me one piece of data that is indicative of doping using Pottgieser's article as a reference point. Once again, I am not saying Horner is clean or he doped, but based on the data he posted on his Biological Passport there is no evidence that he did. For you to post otherwise just shows your ignorance of the data.

stronz

Posts:447

09/25/2013 10:50 PM
Well I am certainly not a hematOlogist but the reticulocytes don't make sense To me. I could be wrong but the they should be higher than they are at the end of a 3 week race. I'll wait for smarter heads to weigh in.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

09/26/2013 02:14 PM
I don't read comments on ANY news article on the interwebs, much less assign any credibility to them. Reading the Comments section on any subject just makes me weep for the future, anyway.....

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

jmdirt

Posts:775

10/06/2013 11:00 AM
CH interview: http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/10/news/horner-qa-looking-for-a-job-releasing-data-and-winning-at-41_304993 I like his take on VAM and like this quote: "...but he came up with this magical number that says, “he must be doping.” And then, of course the journalists print that stuff, and the journalists didn’t check their own facts. Matt, I’m really quite surprised when I released my blood results from 2008, not one cycling newspaper or magazine or internet [site] has even paid to have a professional blood guy actually analyze my results and say, “look, these numbers are fantastic. they’re clean.” … Why haven’t you guys — and I don’t mean you guys, I mean the whole of the journalism area — why hasn’t all of [cycling] journalism paid the money to have a professional look at my blood results and then post to everybody on the web page about how clean my results are? Because I know my results are clean."

The Short White Guy™

Posts:56

10/07/2013 02:19 PM
Why pay a real doc/lab (other than maybe that French lab) to do the leg work, when we have armchair quarterbacks and the interwebs?