jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 10/19/2013 11:07 AM |
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“While it is not 100 percent clear that there is anything untoward happening, there’s certainly unusual patterns there,”
“Obviously the most suspicious thing about this profile is that during a long Grand Tour race like the Vuelta or the Tour or the Giro, it is quite normal and it is almost expected that your haemoglobin is going to decrease over the course of the race, and to generally stay decreased,” he explained. “Your reticulocytes may increase slightly, and then they should stabilise over the course of the Grand Tour.”
“You would expect that if the hemogloblin is going up, that the young red blood cells that are coming into the circulation would reflect that. In this case, the haemoglobin has gone up, albeit slightly, but those young red blood cells, the reticulocytes, don’t seem to match that response.”
Granted he is trying to be careful not to give away too much but that hardly sounds like a guy who is sure that CH took on some new blood.
Didn't a German hemo doc say that fluctuations (+/- 1) are NOT uncommon in endurance athletes due to many factors?
At least someone who has some understanding weighed in. |
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bobswire
Posts:304
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| 10/19/2013 11:45 AM |
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| I've made my thoughts known in the comments section of that hit piece. |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 10/19/2013 02:18 PM |
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hit piece? isn't that what armstrong said about L.A. Confidentiel, and then sued ballester and walsh?
parisotto's an expert in doping, and he sees patterns he doesn't like. it's called investigative journalism... how else do crooks get caught? |
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pikeHillRoad
Posts:95
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| 10/19/2013 03:36 PM |
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| The biggest indictment of Horner is that the Vuelta champ cannot find a ride for next year. Christ, Danilo Diluca could still get a ride if he wasn't banned for life. what gives? |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/19/2013 04:25 PM |
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Posted By pike HillRoad on 10/19/2013 03:36 PM
The biggest indictment of Horner is that the Vuelta champ cannot find a ride for next year. Christ, Danilo Diluca could still get a ride if he wasn't banned for life. what gives?
Ding, Ding, Ding!!! |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/19/2013 04:29 PM |
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Maybe Parisotto since he works with the Athlete Passport Management Unit [APMU] shouldn't be commenting to the media or if the media asks him for comment he should decline because of that role. Seems like a conflict of interest situation to me.
Other than that his concerns about Horner may well be right (he is an expert after all) and PHR makes a good point (those in the know know something).
Velonation is trying to do some good investigative journalism (cudos, often lacking these days) but neither Horner or Parisotto are looking good in this. |
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Ibex
Posts:24
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| 10/19/2013 06:04 PM |
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+1 PikeHill
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steve
Posts:125
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| 10/19/2013 08:45 PM |
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@bobswire - what sort of piece would it have been should the expert's opinion not have brought up those questions? I ask because calling it "hit piece" would imply that there was some sort of malicious attempt to discredit someone and that, should the expert's opinion been one that showed no concerns about the data s/he was given to consider, the story would not have been published.
@OC - Parisotto commented in this instance because the rider made his own data public - he would never have commented on a rider's profile had that not been the case. It would certainly be counterproductive had he pointed out his findings in greater detail, since that would hurt the bio passport initiative by giving athlete's that choose to dope/cheat a better understanding of how to mask his/her results from being flagged as suspect. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 10/19/2013 08:47 PM |
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| Bad comparison, DD was riding for nearly nothing while Horner wants big money. DD getting a ride shows that cycling teams don't care if riders dope.
I'm glad that we got some info from someone who actually knows something. |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 10/20/2013 12:37 AM |
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| +1 steve; thanks for the weighing in, and for continuing to fight the good fight. |
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pikeHillRoad
Posts:95
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| 10/20/2013 08:55 AM |
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| @jmdirt - fine, then find a different example rider. Point is, no one wants to touch Horner. Why? |
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bobswire
Posts:304
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| 10/20/2013 09:18 AM |
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Posted By Steve Jones on 10/19/2013 08:45 PM
@bobswire - what sort of piece would it have been should the expert's opinion not have brought up those questions? I ask because calling it "hit piece" would imply that there was some sort of malicious attempt to discredit someone and that, should the expert's opinion been one that showed no concerns about the data s/he was given to consider, the story would not have been published.
@OC - Parisotto commented in this instance because the rider made his own data public - he would never have commented on a rider's profile had that not been the case. It would certainly be counterproductive had he pointed out his findings in greater detail, since that would hurt the bio passport initiative by giving athlete's that choose to dope/cheat a better understanding of how to mask his/her results from being flagged as suspect.
Steve the story did not bring clarity to Horners blood values but does in effect bring added suspicion when Horner is looking for a ride. I just felt that is unfair if in fact he was riding clean. In this day Teams are seeking to avoid anyone who casts a shadow of doubt whether fair or not.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/20/2013 10:56 AM |
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I'm not certain about your last statement, bob. As PHR noted, DiLuca managed to find ride after ride, despite his past. And let's not forget our old buddy, Ricardo Ricco. How many chances was that asshat given? Similar examples are boundless....
Now, it could well be that it is strictly an "asking price" issue for Horner. He has now won a GT and is (understandably) looking to be paid as such. And in the current climate, that is a tough ask this late in the season.
But I do believe that his performance in Spain is raising enough questions that teams are wary. That, combined with a high asking price, is preventing him from getting a ride.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/20/2013 11:43 AM |
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Steve, I agree that Horner opened himself up to scrutiny by publishing his data. I just don't think someone in Parisotto's position should be providing that public commentary. Same commentary from an expert that is at arm's length - fine.
Aside from that, the fact that the software cannot pick out the ABP anomalies that Parisotto thinks he's seeing (and with LA we had same problem) is yet again a huge WADA failure. If your software is $4it, then what's the value of collecting all that blood at huge expense? An interesting background on the process:
http://inrng.com/2013/10/uci-bio-passport-tiernan-locke/ |
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Ride On
Posts:537
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| 10/20/2013 12:03 PM |
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Once the "experts" figure out how the human body actually works, I'll be interested.
Right now I treat most doctor advice about what they think makes me tick with a healthy amount of doubt.
Get any two of them in a room and you'll get at least 8 opinions, that they state as fact. Which it is anything but. |
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