Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/01/2020 07:52 PM |
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"Can't anybody here play this game?"
"Can't anybody here ride a bike?"
Group ride Saturday 200k. First big group road ride of the year. About 30 of us.
I dropped my wife off at the airport and drove up a few miles to link up with the group. Lopped off about 20 miles on each end. Heading to a hole in the wall town with a cafe famous for pie. Nice rest stop.
On the way back one of the guys running tubeless on non-tubeless tires (gravel set up, 45mm tires, who knows what PSI) and on aerobars no less, has the front tire blow off the rim so violently it lifted the front of the bike up 3 or 4". The guy hit the deck so fast it was nutty! Smashed his helmet, road rash, torn shorts and jersey. Wasn't KO'd but we made him stay down for a few minutes to make sure he was OK.
Someone said, "He didn't even get a chance to put out his hand to brake the fall." Brake the fall?!? The only thing that would have broke would have been his wrist. Physics and anatomy 101
Meanwhile a minute or so behind us some kid did a repeat performance of an episode from last year when he stood on a climb and pulled a rookie move-- stand and slow down. The guy behind overlapped wheels and went down. You would think he'd have some slight clue that HE is the one causing the wrecks.
One of the guys slid over next to me when we were cruising along and said something like, "There are three of us here that know how to ride a bike."
Which is why on rides such as this if I can't be close to the front, I'll be found off the back. Having someone take me out has zero appeal.
The sad thing is I really like a good group ride but they are tough to find. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/01/2020 08:36 PM |
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Maybe that’s cause you are Casey Stengel whoever that is.
Some good early season pace lining and climbing smack down today. Followed by a triple brewery visit. Yikes. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/01/2020 09:14 PM |
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| Riding safe,y and cohesively in a group is a dying art form. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 03/02/2020 08:32 AM |
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OC, Casey Stengel was a famous baseball manager many years ago.
Some of his quotes are golden:
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/casey-stengel-quotes?utm_source=slack&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=slack_slash |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 03/02/2020 11:54 AM |
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Dale, with my many head injuries; the big one and lots of smaller ones that would not have been except those impacts rattled my now loosened brain, riding in iffy company is just not being very smart. A major factor in my riding alone nearly always.
I do three or four organized rides a year. Cycle Oregon - yes, thousands of riders of all skill levels but staying away from marginal riding isn't usually very hard. Those who have to get to camp first leave long before the days warms up for my knees. The Worst Day of the Year ride where I always ride the long route that whittles the groups down early with a 1000' climb. The Portland Century - usually great routes and it can get iffy on both riding behaviors and roads chosen.
Group etiquette - riding trustworthy tires. In my first 3-4 criterium, a crash fest, the wheel I was on blew mid-corner. He went down. I got by but the two behind me didn't. The rider who crashed was a good rider and friend but but a young racer riding on a budget. Cheap sewups.
Edit: if you get on my wheel in a ride that is not a race or fast semi-organized ride, tell me! I throw the bike back when I stand riding alone rather than do the 1/2 crank turn acceleration. If I know you are there, I always do it right but I gotta know.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/02/2020 03:14 PM |
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one of the guys running tubeless on non-tubeless tires (gravel set up, 45mm tires, who knows what PSI)
NEVER NEVER do this.....you can make a MTB wheel tubeless because of the low pressures involved, but you are only asking for pain and suffering (as this guy found out) if you do it on a road bike. Between the different bead styles (crochet vs. non-crochet) and no firm tire / rim standard, setting up a non-tubeless road wheel for tubeless is just dangerous. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 03/02/2020 07:41 PM |
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Yep
If a tire is less than almost impossible to mount, tubeless in gravel let alone road pressure ranges ain't smart. The problem with this is Darwin loser takes out others. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 03/03/2020 01:37 AM |
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| CK, think about it. If you time that flat right, you could incorporate it into your bunnyhop and go several inches higher. I'm also guessing the non-tubeless tires are a few grams lighter and more supple at the same cost level, making that setup faster. Faster mounting, faster rolling and better bunnyhops (well maybe just one). All good. Only drawback: the landing isn't quite as pretty. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/03/2020 02:41 PM |
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I'm also guessing the non-tubeless tires are a few grams lighter and more supple at the same cost level,
The newest tubeless tires have the best rolling resistance of ANY tire, tubed, tubular or tubeless. GP500 TL and the Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 are ridiculously fast.
And I don't even wann think about what that bunny-hop landing would look like.  |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 03/03/2020 10:30 PM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 03/03/2020 02:41 PM
I'm also guessing the non-tubeless tires are a few grams lighter and more supple at the same cost level,
The newest tubeless tires have the best rolling resistance of ANY tire, tubed, tubular or tubeless. GP500 TL and the Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 are ridiculously fast.
And I don't even wann think about what that bunny-hop landing would look like.
Did they compare the tubeless to clinchers run without tubes? Would they publish the results? (Not if they wanted to stay suit free.  )
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/05/2020 08:57 PM |
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Posted By Frederick Jones on 03/02/2020 08:32 AM
OC, Casey Stengel was a famous baseball manager many years ago.
Some of his quotes are golden:
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/casey-stengel-quotes?utm_source=slack&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=slack_slash
That makes the OP a little clearer although it is still as wordy as a baseball game is long.
30 on a group ride is bottom line too much. Sweet spot is 6-10, occasionally I can handle up to 20. Having a formal club structure also tends to keep the rifraf out. Of course none of this prevents dumb foolery by yours truly. Last weekend figured I’d pull a gravel sprint. Just as I wound up a highly broken asphalt patch came into view with a huge longitudinal crack. I barely squeaked by the crack but put myself sufficiently out of balance that the only way to stay upright was straight into the berm where mercifully the soft low hanging branches of a cedar tree stopped me. Unclip big holler and back at it.
Folks are really mcgyvering tubeless?!? |
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eurochien
Posts:163
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| 03/11/2020 10:37 PM |
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| I join a group ride (Meridian for those familiar with the Denver scene) occasionally and between my own apprehensions (I'm mostly a mountain biker now) and what I see from other riders I always stick my elbows way out, especially the first few rides. I'm sure it doesn't look pretty, and I've heard snide comments behind me but IDGAF. Eventually during the season everyone relaxes and rides a lot smoother including me of course. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 03/11/2020 11:45 PM |
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eurochien, I was taught to ride elbows out in crowds so that would be first contact if possible. Out, slightly bent and relaxed with a firm but not rigid grip on the bars. Part of the John Allis school of bike racing that we all learned, either directly from him or from others who had learned.
That so many of us (the racers of the greater Boston area in the '70s) learned the same rules meant we had very safe racing. One of the "rules" was a that you rode so a rod could pass though the tops of your bars and the tops ofy our neighbor's bars (pretend they are all the same height) and we adjusted our speeds without even thinking about it to make that happen. In a race once, I was on the far left edge of the road on a several mile seated climb. I was hoping to move up, but for now I was "parked". Now the road washed out in quite a number of places because there was a hillside dropping off to the left. (Old New England road.) At these washouts, I had to ride into my neighbor and push him over so I could pass. Didn't know him, but we both knew the code and it wasn't an issue. A couple of times I had to push hard enough to push his neighbor over also. Again not an issue. My neighbor didn't like being sandwiched but he could see perfectly well the hole I was going to fall into and didn't say anything. Since I left that scene, I have never felt that comfortable. Now I have no idea what others know or how they will react and I keep my guard up. (Also the stakes are a lot higher. Minor wheel rubs, if I go down, are near certainly yet another concussion. I don't have to hit my head. A body slam is enough.
Ben |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 03/11/2020 11:55 PM |
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Life was so much simpler at the front. But not always possible.
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/12/2020 08:30 AM |
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Posted By Frederick Jones on 03/11/2020 11:55 PM
Life was so much simpler at the front. But not always possible.
I love the race advice "just ride about 3 or 4 wheels back" ...yeah, just like the rest of the 50 guys in the field. (insert eye roll here) |
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