Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/18/2020 08:53 PM |
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Fully agreed CK. Nothing to do with radios
Bottom line is riders don’t want to get rid of radios because the alternative creates more dangers. This topic was closed some time ago among them. Time to drop it. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/18/2020 09:09 PM |
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| Fully disagree. JA was following wheels, which were unexpectently deviated by a fully unexpected motorcycle slow down in the riders' paths. If he wasn't on his stupid radio he would have stayed upright. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/18/2020 09:52 PM |
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| But it was his actions, not the radio’s ....he didn’t need to be on the radio at that time. He chose to use it....just as if he had chosen to reach in his jersey pocket to get a gel. The radio didn’t cause the accident. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/19/2020 07:43 AM |
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He had to look to his left - wrong way to see the moto on the right - to use the radio.
Reaching for a gel or glancing down would have put the moto in his peripheral vision. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/19/2020 08:34 AM |
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What if he was reaching into his left pocket and not his right? What if he had strung the radio wire up his right side instead of his left? What if he was flipping through the screens on his computer to see some data?
I'd also argue that he was overlapping MVP's wheel ...once again because he was not paying attention to what he was doing. See this screen shot of how far MVP veered off line....that is going to have an amplifying effect. WVA had a slight move, MVP made a more dramatic one and then JA caught the brunt of it because of the amplification and the fact that he had his head down.
At the end of the day, he was not in control of his bike at the wrong moment. That was his doing, not the radio's. It is really just bad luck and a racing "incident" more than anything else. IMO. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/19/2020 09:39 AM |
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From the Cyclingnews website:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/motorbike-rider-involved-in-alaphilippe-crash-i-feel-terrible/
It appeared from the TV images that Alaphilippe had his left arm up to talk into his team radio just before hitting the motorbike, meaning that perhaps he would have also leaned his head over to the left to speak into the microphone and so not have seen first Wout van Aert (Jumbo-Visma) and then Mathieu van der Poel (Alpecin-Fenix) flick left to avoid Lissens' slowing 'moto'. It's a theory that appears to hold water.
"Afterwards, I remember seeing that Alaphilippe had been talking into his microphone and could no longer avoid me," Lissens said. "I feel sorry for Alaphilippe. His injuries are bad, but he also had the chance to win the Tour of Flanders, and that's really hit me hard." |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/19/2020 09:40 AM |
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User error. People crash their bikes and cars all the time. It is typically not the equipment fault.
Van Aert and MVDP have radios. They used them more wisely.
Etc. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/19/2020 10:04 AM |
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Just reporting the POV of the motoref, who evidently has been lambasted from some quarters, slowing on the inside of a curve.
Like I said, I would never want to be "that guy". |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/19/2020 10:06 AM |
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| Moto driver was 100% not at fault..... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/19/2020 10:09 AM |
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| CK - the race jury is looking into motards actions as a possible contributing factor. The 100% not at fault is premature. It may turn out to be no fault but let’s see. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/19/2020 11:26 AM |
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Here's how I see it....the moto involved was following the Shimano neutral service moto. they were both inline with each other, but slowing The caveat is that they were on the inside of the right hand bend.
IMO, what happened was that WVA went to the right to do 2 things - 1) cut the corner and 20 get a quick draft off the motos. He misjudged the speed at which they were slowing, causing him to pop back out more aggressively than normal. MVP and JA were still sliding to the right and likely had their view of the motos obscured...due to WVA last second reaction back to the left, and their continued movement to the right, caused an amplification effect of overreaction. All of this compounded with JA going for his radio at the precise wrong moment.
Again, IMO, this was just a race incident and not really anyone's "fault".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjQiLyB9zPc |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/19/2020 11:40 AM |
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I'd agree with this being a compounding of a number of errors in judgement from various parties without it being necessarily anyone's or anything's fault.
For the motards there are better places to slow down but at least there's the counter argument that if they stay ahead of the racers and one of them has a mechanical they get yelled at too.
For JA, the moment to use the radio is a few minutes later. That stretch of road where WVA goes into a feeding frenzy. He grabs and downs 2-3 gels in short order.
In a way Walter Plankaerts words from Friday came true. He said that while JA may have done a recon of the course doing it at race speed would hit him like a cold shower. There are very few moments where you can let your guard down (the straight double wide concrete roads being those moments). Notice how many riders missed turns and went into grass even before JA crashed? That's how challenging it is to race that course. I soft pedalled it myself in 2016 (ok more like a mad chase because we missed the start of the cyclo by 1.5 hours).
Anyway, JA has sent a message to motard with a thumbs up so all seems to be OK. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 10/19/2020 12:40 PM |
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| Thumbs not being broken. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 10/21/2020 10:43 AM |
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| Presumably a slight concussion for VDP today. He’s got a hard head so could have been worse. It was last ride of season anyway although he is signed up for a handful of cyclocross races. Tricky wind conditions. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 10/21/2020 11:20 AM |
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The more I refelct on the Flanders JA crash, if I were to assign blame to anyone, it would be to Wout. He went to the right to get a brief draft off the motos, misjudged their speed and then cut it way too close. Never signaled the motos were coming up and hey would have been blocked form both MVP and JA's view.
But mostly I'm still just chalking it up to a racing incident and a bad confluence of events.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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