Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/18/2022 10:19 PM |
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Yes entry into medical school in NL is lottery based as there’s more qualified candidates than spots. Tom was perfectly qualified and would be a medical doctor by now but didn’t get a winning ticket. So settled for cycling pro career. Never intending to be a GC racer but instead focusing on TTs and smaller races. Stumbled into GTs only on basis of that surprise Vuelta showing. So despite being a very deliberate personality he stumbled into his career path. Which always created a bit of a mental clash for him, hence the expressed doubts.
Vingegaard is very much an accidental Tour winner along similar lines. |
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smokey52
Posts:498
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| 08/19/2022 01:04 PM |
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| Apparently the UK system is similar. Read "This is Going to Hurt" by Adam Kay for insight from a doctor who went through the system. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/19/2022 08:40 PM |
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| Wow, I also did not know that, thanks. I can add that in the British system medical education starts earlier than here: it's and undergraduate degree that takes 5-6 years. British docs have bachelor's degrees. This streamlined path is great if a kid knows what they want to do for the rest of their life at age 17 or 18; saves time and money for all concerned. This seems similar to other state funded trade education programs in western Europe: choose a trade in your teens, get a free education, and go make money for yourself and your society. OTOH, late bloomers who may become spectacular in their chosen field have a better chance here. Interesting social/political/economic contrast. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2022 08:50 PM |
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| Yes, I picked my field of specialization “Earth Science “ straight out of high school age 18. Moreover at the end of elementary school (age 12) a determination is made what high school a kid should enter as different high school streams prepare one for university, trade school etc. It’s still possible to switch streams “down” or “up” but depending on choice one could loose a year. I gave my teachers a bit of a surprise with the elementary school test and they accused my parents I must have cheated. Basically a solid underperformer the entire elementary school years, bored out of my mind with curriculum in a small village school and subpar teachers. The national standardized test woke me up, wait there’s actually something to learn, went straight from bottom to top of the class with that test… |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/19/2022 08:51 PM |
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| (BTW: The 3-10 years of postgraduate medical training we call residency and for some after that fellowship are similar in Europe and the US. No shortcuts in this part of trade school.) |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/19/2022 08:55 PM |
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| OC, great story, glad it has worked out so well for you. Again, a fascinating contrast with the US system, which has more room for late bloomers but one could argue is far less efficient and allows for prolonged immaturity. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2022 08:57 PM |
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| My interpretation from having gone through both systems and having done some teaching on this end, is that undergraduate programs still play catch-up to European programs to make up for really lousy unfocused high school programs (I can’t count how many times I had to explain basic high school level math concepts to science undergraduates here). But the catch is rapidly made during post-secondary education and anything beyond that US schools outperform their European counterparts on account of being a more competitive environment. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/19/2022 09:05 PM |
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| one more bit for this conversation: I enjoyed a semester at a major UK university as an undergrad. The model there was absorb a lot of info, then show you learned it on the final exam. Students were sponges. I called it "fact bulimia": absorb, then spit it all out. The profs there were delighted to have a student who engaged and discussed. Liberal arts vs. trade school. Teaching to analyze vs absorbing a knowledge base. Not judging, especially on a macro societal/economic level. In the US, most pay for the privilege to BS with a learned prof. If the government is paying, yes it should be more focused. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2022 09:30 PM |
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| I believe in NL the current model is the government pays if you graduate within XX years. If you don’t it becomes an interest free loan (ie you pay). In my days government paid straight up which is rife for abuse. Lots of eternal students back then. I basically spent 2 years drinking beer on government dime. Again a case of boredom and lousy profs, that initial Earth Science choice (geophysics) wasn’t the most inspiring (basically you were being prepped for a job at Shell or their competition, even got to taste caviar in Paris at the French national oil company headquarters) although it did provide a solid base for subsequent more informed choices made on this side of the pond. Yes, late bloomer but still consider myself helped by the focused education. Honestly not sure that less specialized programs here are better for late bloomers looking at my kids experience. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2886
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| 08/19/2022 09:43 PM |
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"I basically spent 2 years drinking beer on government dime."
Good on ya! Who can top that?
And where are you now, from a macro perspective? Has society benefited from your path? Sounds like a yes. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2022 10:17 PM |
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| It’s a bit selfserving to answer that with yes but I think so. Supervised quite a few young professionals over last 20 odd years and they’re all on track for success. I’ll caveat this with saying we had a team exercise drawing each other’s portraits the other day which was quite fun despite most of us sucking at drawing. Everyone’s portrait was a pretty standard headshot but somehow I came out as riding a bike with a text t balloon “Suckers. You work. I ride”. This is me teaching young North Americans about Euro style work life balance. It’s debatable whether my portrait is giving everyone else the finger as suggested by my wife. This was of course drawn by one of my current staff hahaha. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2022 10:56 PM |
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| And of course the Dutch never got anything out of it lol. Just a leech. |
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