mtnbkr
Posts:16
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| 07/09/2013 02:02 PM |
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| I'll need to take a better look at it on TV later, but it seems like Cav hit him lower than necessary if he was merely trying to hold his line.
The bump looked low (though bad viewing angles) -- elbows/wrist would affect control more than a shoulder hit might have. And then Cav continues to ride all across the road (almost trying to take out another) -- so no line holding there.
Also looks like Cav had plenty of room (and no obstruction) had he continued straight ahead (or even went right a bit) and that he didn't need to push left. Should be a better rider than that. |
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BuffFan
Posts:53
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| 07/09/2013 02:31 PM |
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| Pretty hard bump but seems like we see like bumps in many sprints like this without out guys going down, i.e. to be expected up with the big boys |
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jacques_anquetil
Posts:245
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| 07/09/2013 03:09 PM |
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sprint analysis courtesy of Gord Fraser (yes that Gord Fraser) via Facebook:
Had a few people ask so here's my .02. I have only seen the sprint twice so I think I have the gist of it. Veelers was certainly in a place where a 'fresh' sprinter should have been. He was done. He was trying to get out of there safely IMO. He looked over and saw his teammate and naturally tried to move and let Kittel take the draft but by doing so veered slightly right into Cav who wanted the same space as Kittel and badly wanted to move left into that pocket. Problem was Cav needed to wait an extra second but in the heat of sprinting decisions are made sometimes faster then reality. They came together and here's the difference. Cav saw it coming and reacted to ward off Veelers who of course didn't see the contact arriving and had no chance to counter balance. Should Cav have seen it and allowed more space? Yes, I think so. Was the contact necessary? No. I even think there was a degree of intention in the contact, but the contact wasn't hard enough normally to cause a crash. Just the fact that Veelers had no idea it was coming made the contact worse then it should have been. Hendy's body check on the Argos guy 10 seconds earlier was much heavier but both riders anticipated the contact... Was the crash sufficient for a relegation? That's undecided for me at this point... |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 07/09/2013 03:13 PM |
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http://tourdejose.com/2013/07/09/screenshots-cavendish-and-veelers/
Good screen shots here. Almost looks as though Cav's bars hit Veeler's bars and Cav leaning left was to try and move the bike to the right to avoid that. But in the very short clip I saw it did kind of look as though Cav gave him a retaliatory bump for getting in the way.
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 07/09/2013 03:29 PM |
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| Sprints tend to get messy sometimes and wrong split-second decisions get made. Shit happens. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/09/2013 03:33 PM |
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I know that my old eyes are getting bad but I'm really wondering about some of the rest of the crew here.
-The sprint is full gas
-Veelers shuts it off in the middle of the road
Veelers made a cat. V move so it doesn't really matter what happened after that, he caused the problem.
Watch the over head view and see how far Veelers moves right to block Cav. If Veelers stays left, Cav just flies past on the right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Rb0Ba76IM
Veelers is wrong twice before there is even contact. People love to hate Cav. If this exact thing would have happened with any other sprinter it wouldn't even be discussed other than saying who was involved.
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jpouchet
Posts:81
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| 07/09/2013 03:59 PM |
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| Will have to watch this in slow-mo but the frame by frame photo link with blow-up inserts sure looks like Veelers drifted a wee bit too mcuh. If he merely held his line everything would have been okay. Not the best place to wind-up a lead-out for your sprinter unless you fully plan to block out half the lane. That works some times, and works best when you hold your line and force riders to come around you, but either way you run the risk of being tagged from behind. |
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mtnbkr
Posts:16
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| 07/09/2013 03:59 PM |
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@jm
thanks for the video, good to see it and be able to replay in a bigger format than the tweet. I can see Veelers drift right, can see how that would threaten Cav, can see how Cav would want to protect his space. I suppose in the heat of the sprint doing that could cause that such a crash, esp. if Veelers wasn't prepared for it. And I can see how such action may seem magnified when looking at it as an observer -- thus what looks like intent was probably simply reaction to protect self.
However, Cav seemed to have a bunch of room to the right (that perhaps he didn't see in the heat of things), could probably have avoided the bump (which did seem to distract him from the sprint), and then perhaps caught and passed Greipel and Kittel.
Anyway, too bad for the crash and good that everyone else stayed upright. |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 07/09/2013 04:18 PM |
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Posted By Andy Eunson on 07/09/2013 03:13 PM
http://tourdejose.com/2013/07/09/screenshots-cavendish-and-veelers/
Good screen shots here. Almost looks as though Cav's bars hit Veeler's bars and Cav leaning left was to try and move the bike to the right to avoid that. But in the very short clip I saw it did kind of look as though Cav gave him a retaliatory bump for getting in the way.
those are good still shots. i saw it live and thought for sure it was cav's fault, but the stills show veeler cooked and fading left and then he's back on the right side of the stripe, and the road is bearing left. cav may have given him a tough lesson in staying on his line. |
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mtnbkr
Posts:16
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| 07/09/2013 04:31 PM |
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| oh, now those screen shots are helpful and the first one seems to show Veeler looking back and, assuming he saw Cav and knew where he was, still drifted right into Cav's space. My position is changing more towards Cav doing what he needed to do in response to Veelers trying to impede him -- booo. |
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durielk
Posts:41
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| 07/09/2013 04:36 PM |
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They were all in a line... The argo rider looked back and seen Cav there, then he gets off the gas, swings way out to the left and then starts edging continuously to the right. Cav thinks he is pulling out and he starts a swing to the right to pass, anticipating the argo rider to continue left and him finishing the swing out with a swing in onto the wheel of Big G or the other sprinter... They meet, I don't think bars hit initially but Cav is commited to swinging back into the wheel at that point.
Lead out man mistake, once done, hold your line or pull out continuously the same direction to the wall.
Sheit happens. |
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Sweet Milk
Posts:93
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| 07/09/2013 05:14 PM |
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| indeed - lead out man's fault; Cav may have leaned harder than necessary, but this happened so quick that I suspect the lean was a reflex (and the right one at that), and not a conscious decision on Cav's part. I doubt that Veelers tried to impede Cav though. |
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BikeCzar
Posts:53
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| 07/09/2013 05:26 PM |
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one thing about women's cycling, there's a lot less manufactured drama and outrage.
Veelers totally balked left then came back right and paid the price. These things happen without the benefit of slow motion replay and still shot analysis. It's bike racing. |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 07/09/2013 07:08 PM |
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Posted By Bike Czar on 07/09/2013 05:26 PM
one thing about women's cycling, there's a lot less manufactured drama and outrage.
That's ironic ain't it? Here at work it's the women folk that get all bent out of shape 'cause there's a cup in the sink.
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laurentja
Posts:122
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| 07/09/2013 09:14 PM |
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Posted By Joop Zoetemelk (as if..) on 07/09/2013 05:14 PM
indeed - lead out man's fault; Cav may have leaned harder than necessary, but this happened so quick that I suspect the lean was a reflex (and the right one at that), and not a conscious decision on Cav's part. I doubt that Veelers tried to impede Cav though.
^ Yup! Although...Cav does use his elbows and shoulders very aggressively - seen it many times before. It sends the message: You are not getting the wheel I'm on without a fight. |
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