GJanney
Posts:76
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| 07/10/2013 12:12 PM |
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In a follow-up article today, Cav apologizes to Veers by phone. Wonder why when he did nothing wrong.....? That said, spraying him with urine is a bit much.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/14962/Cavendish-jeered-and-sprayed-with-urine-during-Tour-de-France-time-trial.aspx
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 07/10/2013 12:30 PM |
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| I have apologized after races for stuff that happened in a sprint because I am not trying to get a bad rap nor do I want people to think I was out to hurt them. "Sorry dude, I was sure I was clear of your wheel when I came over. No harm meant." |
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It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3189
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| 07/10/2013 12:46 PM |
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GJ, I got to watch Bob's clip frame by frame (my connection is that slow) and it is clear that Cav passes easily with no contact but that Veelers does a sudden serve you only see for the one frame at contact where Veelers is in Cav's path. Cav probably hit Veelers' handlebar end with his hand or arm from behind. Veelers does not have a firm enough grip on his bars to hold them steady at contact.
Again. back to my racing days; I had a rider pass me once when I leaned a little into his path, very similar situation but slower. The rider passing me bumped my handlebar end three times with his thigh. A bit rocky at my end, but I had a firm grip (not a death grip) on my bars and not too tight forearms and it was OK.
Cav could have missed him. I don't blame Cav as he ws finishing a bike race and headed straight up the road. Veelers wasn't riding like he was in with the best of the pros at a big time race. Caught unawares by contact? Huh?
Ben |
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stinkyhelmet
Posts:94
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| 07/10/2013 01:03 PM |
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WHAT are you watching Ben? Cav passes easily with no contact? Cav hits Veleers elbow/forearm with his shoulder...coming from behind. See the video below at 1:26....can't be missed unless you don't WANT to see it.
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/wielrennen/TourDeFrance/Tour_Nieuws_verslagen/MV_130709_TDF_Cav_Veelers
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 07/10/2013 01:14 PM |
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| Veelers was riding in the hoods and not defending his position, the contact was not severe. I don't think anybody is debating that Cav bodied him. If Veelers was riding in the drops like he should have been in a high speed dicey pack sprint, he would not have went down. That is what we are saying. |
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It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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SideBySide
Posts:444
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| 07/10/2013 02:41 PM |
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| Plenty of fault to go around. I'd call it a racing incident and move on. |
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 07/10/2013 02:49 PM |
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| Yup. |
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It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/10/2013 03:18 PM |
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I feel the need to repeat what I said already in this thread: Veelers makes two errors before there is contact (three if you count relaxing). He slows down in the middle of a sprint (cat V) and he tries to impede Cav (bush league at that point of a sprint). That makes it 100% his fault. I really doubt that Cav made contact on purpose because he would be risking hitting the ground himself.
Gjanne, no doubt Cav is a pouty pants but how can it be his fault when Veelers shuts it down and tries to slow him/force him wide? The apology is good PR and nothing more.
On one hand its just racing/sprinting but at this level who expects cat V moves. |
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stinkyhelmet
Posts:94
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| 07/10/2013 04:17 PM |
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Comparing Veelers to a cat V is off base. He is well regarded sprinter who knows what he is doing and has given up his personal ambitions to lead out Kittel.
A lead out guy HAS to slow down, otherwise he would be the designated sprinter. All designated sprinters have lead out guys that swing off. Some continue pedalling, some stop pedalling, but all look for a safe escape route. Sprinters know that and work with it.....go around them, not bulldoze them out of the way.
The worst part is that Cav knew he had been out smarted (Kittel jumping first on the inside of the curve) by Argo Shimano and showed his frustration and desperaton by his actions.
My hope is that Veelers heals up to keep the Argo train intact and get a hat trick. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/10/2013 04:36 PM |
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Velers is obviously not a cat V but shutting it down in the middle of the road is an amateur move. Stinky, your trying to tell me how sprint works like I don't know what I'm talking about yet even you say the leadout guy swings off. Most of the time if you look behind a sprint there is a trail of guys along the barriers who have done their work and gotten out of the way. Now some leadout guys will let their man come though and then stay on the gas to gobble up points but that's an entirely different thing than we are talking about here.
For the sake of argument, lets says its OK to shut it down in the middle of the road. Is it also OK to look behind you and move to impede another rider at that point in a sprint (especially move right on a road that is going left)?
I still don't think Cav would risk going down just to prove his frustration. |
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stinkyhelmet
Posts:94
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| 07/10/2013 04:59 PM |
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| jmdirt, I suppose that is why they have a odd number of members on a race jury. You and I view this differently and disagree and need a tie breaker :-) |
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GJanney
Posts:76
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| 07/10/2013 05:01 PM |
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| I would perhaps add that passing on the right when the road is turning left is also an amateur move. Knocking someone else down as you do so is also an amateur move. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 07/10/2013 05:07 PM |
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Posted By Justin jmdirt on 07/10/2013 04:36 PM
Velers is obviously not a cat V but shutting it down in the middle of the road is an amateur move. Stinky, your trying to tell me how sprint works like I don't know what I'm talking about yet even you say the leadout guy swings off. Most of the time if you look behind a sprint there is a trail of guys along the barriers who have done their work and gotten out of the way. Now some leadout guys will let their man come though and then stay on the gas to gobble up points but that's an entirely different thing than we are talking about here.
For the sake of argument, lets says its OK to shut it down in the middle of the road. Is it also OK to look behind you and move to impede another rider at that point in a sprint (especially move right on a road that is going left)?
I still don't think Cav would risk going down just to prove his frustration.
Guys go down the middle of the group all the time....and pulling off in a "tactical manner" is also part of the game. Let's say the wind is coming form the right.....lead out man hugs the barrier, launches his sprinter (who comes over his left side) and sits up, effectively blocking other sprinters in. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 07/10/2013 05:24 PM |
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| stinky, I believe that article 1, section 1 clearly states that when there are different views, each person must consume either a beer or a shot of their choice and then try again (repeat until everyone agrees)! ;}
EDIT: PS: I'd like to say that the race jury agrees with me but I know that the deciding factor was less about what happened and more about money. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 07/10/2013 07:03 PM |
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Posted By SideBy Side on 07/10/2013 02:41 PM
Plenty of fault to go around. I'd call it a racing incident and move on.
+1 on racing incident - $4it happens in sprints. Beyond that I think it is as Ben pointed out, Cav did what he needed to do to survive the impact, Veelers did not. No more no less. |
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